“Consciousness research has the potential to reshape the way we live.”

[Charles Grob - MBHP Transcription](https://mystrong.notion.site/Charles-Grob-MBHP-Transcription-c5a1330a150341a3a0da24ed80480fa0)


andres mbhp backup

Dr. Miller: Welcome to Mind Body Health and Politics. I'm your host, Dr. Richard Louis Miller. Our mission is to enhance wellbeing and encourage community. Humans are friendly, tribal animals who enjoy collaborating. We like doing things together - in circles, games, classes. Nowadays some enjoy taking psychedelics together.

The world is changing, but we must remember dictators exist. They take power and are not cooperative. Centuries ago we overthrew kings and became citizens in a democracy and republic. These are fragile things we must maintain by staying aware and active.

Some now want to take over our country. We must remain vigilant to maintain liberty. As Thomas Jefferson said, "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."

Today our guest is Andrés Gómez Emilsson, co-founder and director of the Qualia Institute. Welcome.

Andrés: Thank you, I'm very happy to be here.

Best thing that could happen in this interview.

Dr. Richard Miller: Andrés, before we started recording, I mentioned a question I wanted to ask. So, here it is: What would be the best thing that could happen in this interview if you had a magic wand? I want to assure you that whatever you say, I will collaborate with you to make it happen.

Andrés Gómez Emilsson: Amazing! Okay, so I was thinking about it, and there are obviously many things that I could want to have happen based on the frameworks that we explore at QRI. Probably the biggest thing, what I call ethical arbitrage, meaning the biggest thing where, with relatively few resources and coordination, we could massively improve the world, is on a topic that is actually pretty unpleasant to think about but ethically necessary. That is essentially gaining traction, resources, and power behind the task of enabling the use of psychedelics for people who suffer from cluster headaches.

For brief context, cluster headaches affect one in 1000 people and are about as painful as it gets. They are maybe 10 to 50 times more painful than amputation without anesthesia, and they are relatively common. The crazy thing is that LSD, DMT, and psilocybin mushrooms actually abort those headaches and prevent them for weeks at a time, in a way that seems to be much more effective and reliable than the best available medicines and interventions.

So I think this is the sort of thing that, if one billionaire were to say, "I want cluster headaches to be eradicated in the next five to 10 years," it's completely doable. It's within the realm of possibility. What we lack is essentially the will and the power behind it to make that happen. So if I could wave my magic wand, I think that would probably be my one wish, if I only have one, yes.

Dr. Richard Miller: Okay, let's say I approach a billionaire whom I have the privilege of knowing. I tell him about Andrés Gómez Emilsson, who says that 3.3 million people in the United States are suffering from migraine headaches, and that there's a cure. What should I ask the billionaire to do with his billions of dollars? Can you tell me?

Andrés Gómez Emilsson: Yeah, so there are a couple of very concrete things. One of them is that we're essentially going to conduct a clinical trial of this application for DMT. In particular, DMT is the most promising way of tackling this because it's something you can inhale through a vape or other methods very quickly. The user will report the headache. According to the people we have interviewed, the effects could be felt as soon as 10 seconds after inhaling. You don't need very high doses; in fact, you can use very low doses, like up to three milligrams, which is not even hallucinogenic. It's not a psychedelic dose.

So the mechanism of action may not actually be the psychedelic component, but rather other receptor affinity. Essentially, getting DMT through clinical trials is one option. Another drug, which is a non-psychoactive version of LSD, also seems very promising in this domain. My best guess for introducing these to the world at large, maybe in parallel to the clinical trials, would be to get a Nordic country, potentially Finland or Sweden, who are much more easy to convince and coordinate around these, to essentially make a clause for not criminalizing psychedelics for people who suffer from this condition, just as an entryway. I think when that happens in one of those countries, I do expect a domino effect given the vast amount of testimonials and life-changing experiences that people will have based on this.